Ernie Gruen

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stevepage 2.7.09 / 1pm

God Bless you and your Grandfather for upholding the truth
Elise 4.8.09 / 12pm

Mr. Gruen,

I have the utmost respect for your chronicling of the deception and false prophesy that occurred in the Kansas City Fellowship, but that respect ends where your document “Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teachings of Kansas City Fellowship” begins to take on a note of smug arrogance in the area of the prophesy.
It was that attitude alone which made me start to question the validity of your standpoint.
You can preach up and down to me about how KCF did some pretty terrible things, and how Bob Jones is a fraud…but when I began to read the prophesy itself, even between your quips about it, I began to see how the prophesy was from God.
I read thoroughly into both sides. My decision is to give doctrine right back to you where you (and others) have used doctrine:
You carried on a bit about the percentage of accuracy quoted by the puffed-up Bob Jones as “75%”–using Deuteronomy 13 and 18 as examples. I would argue that KCF has interpreted those passages too lightly. There is no degree of “hit or miss”–Mike Bickle is held accountable to the Lord for letting Bob Jones carry on in his false prophesying, as we are all each held accountable for believing his prophesies–but are you going to lift the first stone against him to kill him? Take a note from Jesus here and work on your own soul first. Jesus will take care of the flock, brother.
I have just read a website basically bashing the idea of modern prophesy. They used Rev 22:18 as the basis for their standards and I just shook my head. Words are powerful, powerful enough to send people reeling on the waves, and yours Mr. Gruen are fairly powerful because you have invoked the righteousness and truth of God. But your words, too, will fade in time. Have you noticed how easy it is for people to twist words? I think you did some of that in your document, and you should be ashamed. I read between the lines that this is an issue where you feel you are fighting the Lord’s battle for Him. I exhort you to submit to Jesus of the cross who died will all these sins put on Him so that we could live free from their bondage.

I will not let another day go by where I worry about whether you’re right or Mike Bickle is right. Neither of you is Christ, and neither of you is claiming to be so; so I judge with the Holy Spirit whether your words are true, and I judge the spirits you submit to. You and I both are incapable of judging Mr. Bickle’s soul; Jesus alone must do that. But we must pray for life in him, and in those around him under his care (1 John 5:16-20) Have peace in that, Mr. Gruen. And continue to live in readiness for the return of Jesus, since that is what He asked. Not for us to bicker with one another, but to wait anxiously for Him, desiring Him as He desires to be with us.

Peace to you, and may the God of our salvation come soon!
Your sister in Christ,
Elise Feldt
Elise 4.8.09 / 3pm

Forgive my using your website Mr. Noble to send my letter to Mr. Gruen. I noticed only after I reread that you were quoting.

I also want to add: as I reread the document your grandfather published; I believe him about the KCF deception–I don’t think I made that clear–but as a rule I cannot condemn every aspect of the “foundational” prophesy as false; I already believed in many similar aspects before I read Bob Jones/Mike Bickle’s interpretation. We are in the end times when Joel 2:28 will begin to come true; we need those kinds of reminders to keep us watching the skies for signs. Your grandfather’s attempt to “preserve truth” seems to negate it all! I discovered his document from a couple’s posting on YouTube who related their questions with IHOP and Kansas City to the supposed “lie” of prophetic praying–that was the source of my Rev. 22:18 comment–leading away from the idea that our prayers have the kind of prayer Jesus says they do in Matthew 18:18–only three verses away from the very words Mr. Gruen uses to defend his methods of contradicting KCF and Mike Bickle.

Blessings to you and your family,
Elise Feldt
Joseph Don Barnett Jr 2.9.10 / 4pm

Can someone tell me when the Abberant Practices document was written?
Thank you,
Joseph Don Barnett Jr
Jason Fisher 4.12.11 / 1pm

Joseph, the document was written over 20 years ago. Pastor Ernie Gruen has now gone to be with the Lord.
IHOP is a full-on missions base with a specific mission to do 24 hour prayer.
People should only go there if they really feel called to that kind of life. If you are not called, don’t go! Everyone at IHOP understands it is not for everyone and salvation is fundamentally obtained through a relationship with Jesus Christ.
barbs dean 10.28.11 / 2am

this saddens me as i have never heard of this church or ernest gruen until this week i was given his book “touching the heart of God” which is one of the very best books on prayer i’ve ever read!
Jason 2.9.12 / 2pm

There’s appears to be quite a bit of confusion on this whole thing. I haven’t read the wiki post but I appreciate your dilligence. I also am thankful for your grandfather!

I found this post below. According to this blog post, which includes a copy of a letter from your grandfather, it appears he is at least “recanting” portions of his report. Perhaps recanting is a strong word. In either case, the sentiments in your post and the views expressed in the letter (post below), don’t seem to jive completely. They were written at different times of course. And I am on the far far outside looking in. All in all, the events sadden me but I am glad at the attempts of reconciliation. I hope some of those accounts are true.

http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/in-exonerating-paul-cain-is-the-%E2%80%98aberrant-practices%E2%80%99-document-invalidated/
Craig 2.14.12 / 2pm

Grant and Jason,

I am the author of the piece referenced in the 2.9.12 comment. See the section “Assessing Gruen’s Concessions” for my analysis of the letter regarding the Paul Cain exoneration and especially the conclusion “Comparing Words”:

If Cain were to have remained discredited in the Gruen Document, this could cast further doubt on the legitimacy of Cain’s “earthquake prophecy” which would in turn cast a long shadow on the Vineyard in general as it was Cain’s message which validated the Vineyard involvement in the “prophetic movement” in the first place. With stakes this high, the pressure to discredit the Gruen Document and to exonerate Cain must have been enormous.

Also of importance are the events leading up to, including, and just after the release of the “Gruen Document” (I have an original spiral bound copy) in this post:

http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/did-ernie-gruen-recant-his-%e2%80%98aberrant-practices%e2%80%99-document-regarding-kansas-city-fellowshipgrace-ministries/
Mark 4.5.12 / 10pm

I sat under Ernie Gruen’s ministry for more than a decade. He was without a doubt a genuine man of God. I remember the time when this issue was at it’s peak and there was a clear line of battle drawn. The KC Fellowship group was taking over smaller churches and was developing quite a following. His movement was primarily drawing young people, like today. I also remember when KC Fellowship became a part of the Vineyard movement. I went to hear John Wimber at Mike Bickle’s Church which at that time was going through a spriritual “laughing” phase! Wimber was also a real man of God who spoke with a prophetic annointing. I had met Bickle on several occasions back then, and he seemed arrogant and not at all genuine. At that time I would not have placed myself under his teaching. Several decades have passed and Earnie fell by the way side (and is now gone) and Mike has built quite a significant ministry. I believe that Earnie’s work helped keep Mike from straying from the truth farther than he did, and I also think that had Earnie kept his heart on God’s calling in his life he wouldn’t have fallen the way he did. The issue continues to be God and His will through Jesus Christ, not man’s frailties. I appreciated knowing Earnie and he had a positive impact on my early Christian walk, and I pray that Mike Bickle is effective for Christ in his ministry. Let these vintage issues be a lesson for those who desire to walk with God, not issues which continue to stir up crontroversy!
Shawn Eckhoff 10.24.12 / 9am

#kcfalseprophets
shawn
Biography
I support the movement known as “Anonymous”.
My goal is to expose the false prophets of the Kansas City Evangelical Christian movement.
Why? I grew up in a cult/neighborhood church in the late 80′s. The men (false prophets) of the church are all but ONE dead; unfortunately the remaining member of “kansas city fellowship” has started another cult, and it is big million dollar big(a year).
This “church” called Ihop (not the pancake house) the International House Of Prayer or their new one kc forerunner fellowship.
Why not just leave them alone? I cant.
The key word here is “International”
This is how the founder and current pastor M.B. funds this Doomsday cult of martyr’s.
90% of the members are in their twenties, and they think their training to be missionaries, but the “end times” have been prophesied by the pastor.
Fear, immigrant small business loans, lies and religious visas are the tools of the new face of Christianity. This movement has roots in almost every church in America. Know a false prophet? You can trace him back to “Kansas City Prophets”
Now for the good parts, Number one sign of a cult- Isolationism, the members have been instructed to unplug all media outlets(maybe the 500, 000 post on Google haunt him, but he doesn’t have to worry.
This is how it works, he calls his church a missions school, so internationally anybody can get a religious visa from almost any country as long as they have an institute to accept them (IHOP) then when they arrive here usually with nothing but belief until M.B. helps them all get the small business loan for their new business “A Missionary”
Conveniently a semester of bible thumping cost the same amount as the basic loan, once they give it to the church there broke hungry and immobile so they have to rely on the church. This is how over 50, 000 young adults are living right now right here.
They are also linked to “The Promise Keepers” I know it was once a simple movement with a good promise, all men called to treat their families better, now they have 500, 000 men that don’t know the promise has changed.
Promise Keepers is now basically “IHOPS” personal sleeper cell.
Why should you care? This man “Mike Bikle” will unite his forerunners(martyr’s) will Islamic Jihad and bring it to our shores.
He is trying to force the sky open and bring “armagedon” in nuclear war only the 1% survive.
I don’t hate God or Christians, but I knew this man was a fraud since I was 10.
This cult is very dangerous if you Google it you’ll see, if you go to their service which I recommend, you will find great rock music 24 hour “Healing Rooms” but please don’t drink the kool-aid just listen. We need to expose this man to his followers, one thing young adults cant do is turn of their smartphone so twitter could stop a war, one that nobody but jihadist are talking about, until 1999 when he had his 10th vision in 10 years. He sees himself as the right hand of Jesus and possesses “The Holy Gost”
We must stop this please Google this and read about the families turned and destroyed, mothers posting on Google about their child no longer caring about them and feeling superior.
Ihop members, this is to YOU, I know Bikle better than anyone in that church and he will lead you to death not the rapture.
its in Grandview MO 2 miles west of 71 off red bridge rode its on a hill on the left in a strip mall, don’t be fooled they own 3 square miles of Grandview and used criminal tactics to buy out all the nearby businesses.
It was allegedly a vision of the physical manifestation of Christ who gave him the Idea, that’s a lie it wasn’t his idea. The real missionaries I knew left in 1988 because of this, they went to Guatemala built a school and hospital all from donations and the’re still there and still poor and still good people.
This man caused the end of my church when I was 11 then I was thrown into larger cults, then I rebelled HARD. The one Pastor that ousted him died in 2009 his name was Ernie Gruen, but he was a smart man, he wrote an in depth report titled “the abbreverant practices of KC Fellowship”.
His son is still standing up for his dad.
I intend to start where Ernie Gruen left off
Twitter Username
@shawn35null
below is a video about mike bikles current open vision for America.
YOU DECIDE
nullacide.tumblr.com
vienna 12.4.12 / 3pm

Mike Bickle is one of the most genuine men of God I have ever met with a strong teaching anointing. All of this mess should be forgotten and put in the hands of God. It’s a new day and we cannot afford such division at this hour.
Craig 12.4.12 / 5pm

Would a true “genuine man of God” change “prophecies” when outside evidence indicates they’re wrong in order to continue to justify the “prophet” who spoke this “word” and the movement of which he is a part?

http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2012/11/13/the-sandy-foundation-of-the-international-house-of-prayer-ihop/
http://tinyurl.com/housthew02421 2.6.13 / 1am

“Ernie Gruen � Thoughts and Ponderings” was a marvelous post, can’t wait to examine more of ur blog posts.
Time to squander a bit of time on-line haha. Thanks for the post ,Verlene
seo ranking report 2.17.13 / 10am

Wow! I found this place on Yahoo poking around
for something else entirely- and now I’m going to need to go through all the old posts XD So much for my spare time this morning, but this was a truly spectacular find!!!
Dave Bridwell 5.15.13 / 1pm

The Church in the US is such a mess!! It is so disturbing when a Pastor tells what he saw to his own group and others sling mud at him!! What is going on?? Just because this kind of experience doesn’t happen to you!! You are heaping judgement on your head. Think about it guys!! Why do you take apon yourself Ernie to judge this man of God just because he doesn’t agree with your interpretation. Your judgement greatly increased when you spread your lies to the world. My advice to Ernie is that he had better be repenting before it is too late my friend.

Thoughts and Ponderings

Ernie Gruen

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